Series Highlight Episode - Jennifer Grimson 

Sun, May 05, 2024 12:33PM • 1:19:56

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, nashville, years, live, syndication, investment, money, multifamily, pay, investing, investors, jennifer, sales, bonus depreciation, successful, properties, knew, started, micro, question

SPEAKERS

Billy Keels

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00:01

Boom, boom

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00:09

and we're back.

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Billy Keels  00:10

There we go. Cool. Here we go. All right, awesome. So, um, let's jump in. And then we have time at the end of your session, and we can chat and catch up. And because I also want to hear kind of how life was going and in business has gone and all that other kind of good stuff. So you've heard my show it, I asked everybody the same five questions, right? And I want to tell you what those questions are. And really quickly, I'm going to tell you about a guy named Javier who's listening to us, and I'm gonna give you like the fast version. We've since made a video. So I could have sent you the video in advance. But I thought, You know what, let me just tell you the story. And then afterwards, the video is gonna get started soon. So because I've told this story about 85 times, yeah. And I want everybody to know, at least who hobby areas. So same five questions. The very first question is, where do you live in the United States, as specific as you can great, but I've also, like, some people don't want people to know where they live, right. And the biggest thing is 50% of my database is outside of the United States. So whenever you paint, however you want to paint it, if you can just kind of say it's generally in this direction. I mean, you can go Nashville, or you can go I live on this part of United States, whatever you want to do. That's the first question, where do you live? Second thing, what's the most positive thing that's happened to you in the last 24 hours? I'm gonna say a couple things that you will have already heard, then gonna give you a chance to tell your backstory. And then based on kind of how you answer your backstory, like the team is, I've kind of already talked to you before, but the team has given me a bunch of stuff to ask you. And so completely ready to oh, that's just

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01:40

me. Oh.

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Billy Keels  01:44

That's fine. That's fine. So we did. So they've given me these questions. But here's the thing, Jennifer, like, they've given me these questions, but I'm going to ask you about your backstory. And I don't know today, I'm feeling a little bit stressed and want to do things. So I'm either going to pick up on certain things that you say, and we're just gonna have a conversation like we've always done. You

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01:58

know what else Billy, let's just go through your interview. And if we run out of time, let's reschedule mine. Okay, that's fine. That's perfectly fine. Because I don't want to, you're stressed, you gotta go do this thing. Let's not rush it. Love that. Okay, works on a snap

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Billy Keels  02:11

photo. But I think we'll be fine. And I'm gonna do a screen shot while you do. Yeah, I'm gonna screenshot you.

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02:19

I finally figured out like, I need to stop using my camera and screenshot here we go. Okay, ready and smile. You are so like,

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Billy Keels  02:29

here we go. Perfect. Okay, you have to do ready 123

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02:35

You're perfect at the like, you have the exact like, when it's time for the camera to go on. You're like, it's the same. Like, I love it. My photos are like, you know, wrong,

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Billy Keels  02:45

wrong wrong. Anyway, so we're gonna have a conversation, we typically talk about 21 to 27 minutes is what I say. But it's usually probably a little bit longer than that two. After the conversation, I will give you a cue that's that says we're gonna go into the going long, final three. At that point, I'm going to ask you the same three questions that I've asked everybody else. The first one is I, you told us where you lived. I live in Europe, I'd love to know what is your favorite European city, either that you visited or still on your bucket list to visit. And that should be easy. For anyone who's lived in Russia, it means you've probably been over somewhere around here. So at least that's what my team tells me. And then the other thing is, like anybody who's successful, has probably made one or two mistakes. And so we'd really love for you to tell us of the one mistake or learning opportunity or however you want to call it like what's the lesson that you learned? I think that's the most important thing, like the lesson that you learned. And then from there it is what book would you recommend to the going long audience. Then after that, I'm going to turn it over to you. You're going to tell people how they can connect with you get into your universe and all that kind of stuff. And then I'll say a couple of words and we'll wrap it up and we'll head over the chat with you. That sounds good. Perfect. Okay, cool. So, I'm gonna tell you about heavier, really quick. Yeah, Javier is. Heavier is well, he's the person that's listening to us today. And when I'm using questions, um, that's a great question. That's a really good question. So Javier lives, and this is the only thing that you get to decide about how you're actually is that he lives in whatever major European city you want him to live in? Oh, okay. Whatever. Right. Interesting. The thing is, is Javier is a very successful person. And Javier says that he's successful. Well, I'm gonna tell you why. Because number one, at 39 years old, he is married. He has two kids, and he and his wife are really, really happy. He has his college degree. And he's also working for a market leading enterprise software company. So he's making really good money. He's making about 170 to 200,000 euros. It's about 190 to 220,000 USD per year. And the thing is, just to give you some context on that, like, here's that 190 80 to 220 is the equivalent of earning more than $518,000 in the US why? Because for every euro he's earning 50% of that is going to his respective Uncle Sam. And he's successful, because he's very successful. And he's successful also, because he has the really nice suits. He's got the 1000 Euro shoes, he's got the 10,000 Euro watches. And he's successful. So he really enjoys taking his clients to really nice lunches. When he stays overnight, really nice dinners. He loves doing the exact same thing for his wife, for his kids. He likes taking them to nice lunches, nice dinners. On the weekends, I like taking road trips. And, you know, because he's successful, he also really, really enjoys being seen at his son's soccer matches at his daughter about at his daughter's ballet recitals. And he loves, like giving his wife really nice things like gifts and stuff like that, because he's successful. And so the thing is, with him being this really successful person, like most European families that have five weeks of vacation, he constantly takes at least four of those weeks, and they go to some really cool international destination. And when they're at this destination, Jennifer, they are typically taking a lot of pictures and videos, and they're sending them their friends, and they're posting them on Instagram, and they're posting them on Facebook, because you know what he wants everybody to know how successful he is, and all the great places that he's taken his family because well, he's successful. And the thing is, he also has some experience with investing. And as most successful people do, he's completely maxed out on his defined contribution plan. Every country calls it, whatever. So depending on what country you pick, they're calling it something or another, but you and I would call it a defined contribution plan. He gets lots of tips on the hot stock, the hot fund, and he's investing there and stock market in and out, you know, kind of happy about that. And he has some experience with real estate as well, like he invested in in they inherited a home, he and his brother and sister. And they're actually paying 75 euros or about $90 per month, each one of them to maintain the property. And by the way, Jennifer, they do have a tenant in the property. So you and I would call that cashflow negative, but the thing is because he's very successful, right, right. This is what successful people do, especially in Europe, well, you know, they know that they're paying in every month, but eventually they're gonna get all that money back. And so it just absolutely makes sense to do it that way. And, you know, so you know, he's really successful person, and he's doing all the right things. And, and also, he loves, loves, loves love keeping lots of cash in the bank, because that's what really successful people do month after month, he checks his account, it's always going up. And having all that money sitting in the bank is very successful thing that successful people do. So that's awesome. And thing is that was going on really well until one day and you're in sales, and you've been in sales. So you'll get this right, they're in their sales meeting, and it's the second week of the quarter. And so he's sitting around this U shaped table, you know, we've all been there, it's kind of like here, and they look across and he sees his colleagues and his boss is standing there in the in the front of the room, and it's the second week of the quarter. And he decides that he's going to completely drop his call, he's going to he's not going to you know, his number, his sales quota, he's going to drop his sales quota. And it's the second week of the quarter. And he tells his boss that in front of all of his friends. And you can imagine what the outcome was basically, his boss ripped into him like he'd never felt in his entire life.

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08:17

He's gonna drop his What do you mean by drop his number. So basically, he said he

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Billy Keels  08:21

was going to do 5 million and a week before and then the second week, he's now saying we're gonna do a million, okay? And his boss said, No, I don't care what you have to do. I don't care if you're on a plane every week. I don't care if you're staying in the hotel overnight. I don't care if you're missing your children's matches the ballet, I don't care if you're not going on vacation. Whatever you do, you're going to make sure that you hit your quota like you're going to hit the quarter, there's no I'm not accepting that. And he's ripping into me. He's calling him all kinds of stuff. And he's in sales me right. And so he starts sweating. And he doesn't really know what to do is thinking, Oh, my God, if I if I don't actually get he's right, you know, and if I don't hit my quota, then I'm not going to be able to take my family to a nice vacation. And heaven forbid, people are going to see us here. And I'm not going to be able to buy my wife this thing. And I'm not going to be able to go to my son's match because I'm going to be in a hotel and I'm going to be eating poorly. I'm going to be on presentations. He's freaking out, right? He's freaking out. And he's you know, he doesn't know what else to do. He's sweating, just feels terrible. And before he knew it, like his boss had gone on, and he's sitting on the other side of the room and the exact same thing happens to one of his colleagues, right? He's coming out he's, he's looking at his colleague and his colleagues drops his call as well says he's not going to bring in as much money in the boss's screaming and his colleagues like cool, calm and collected. And obvious, like, I don't get it. I don't understand this. But afterwards, I gotta figure out so he runs over this colleague afterwards. And he's like, Hey, man, I'm gonna ask you a question. You know, no matter what happens, I mean, whether you you increase your call, you drop your call, whatever, like you're always cool, calm and collect the bosses yelling at you. He's singing your praises, and you just don't ever seem to care. Like, why would you do that? And he's like, Well, have you Why do you always get so worked up? He's like, man, because if I can't do this, and I'm not going to be around vacation, am I gonna take my wife to this? Am I gonna be able to do that? He said, Well, it's Sounds like your problems are financial, and obvious. But he looked at him and said, Of course there aren't yours. He said, No, no, no, actually, I, I've got that whole part of my life taken care of already, like I actually come into the sales job every day because I genuinely like being here. But that whole part of my life actually have already under control. And he's like, Well, how do you have it under control? He's like, Well, the thing is, I've been investing in real estate. I'm just thinking, Well, me and my brother sister paying 70 bucks 70 euros a month, how in the world are you doing this? And he said, and so he's like, Well, I'm actually investing with this guy who lives here in Europe. And he's investing in US based real estate, real assets. What? Across the pond, what I acknowledged, and he's like, look, I got to talk to this guy, I got to talk to this guy. Everybody says, Well, hang on, hang on a second, hang on a second. You know much about real estate? Well, not really, I've got this thing. So Well, I actually have a better idea. Because this guy actually has a podcast and a videocast. And twice a week, he's interviewing the absolute best experts in US based real assets. And so like, each one of these experts, has a different area of expertise. And so you can listen, learn from them, figure out who you gel with the most. And then when it's all said and done, like you can reach out to that guest because every single guest gives you the possibility to reach out to them. So, you know, imagine that you want to hear more about coaching or getting into multifamily or what I would recommend that you go watch the episodes and that you listen to them, or you do both. And so the name of the podcast is and this is where you come in Jennifer because Javier is buddy recommend that he come and watch and listen to the going long podcast with Billy keels, so that we can help people feel much more comfortable and confident investing beyond their backyard. And you are today's expert guest who's going to dazzle everybody. So make sense?

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11:48

Yeah. Yeah, it does. Um, what is your what's your listenership? Do you have a handle? I

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Billy Keels  11:54

don't even pay attention to it right now. I saw what I told myself is I am going to figure it out next year avatar that next year, but that's my avatar. That's who I'm talking to. That's who's listening to us.

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12:06

I mean, you started in June, and you're you've got a million episodes. And then what do you want? Like, what I mean, I know what I think my expertise is. But is there something is there a gap that you're wanting me to focus on,

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Billy Keels  12:21

I want people to connect with you. You have, you have started businesses, you have you know what it's like to be a single mom, who's been in the sales environment, who's taken that sales expertise, leadership, and now I was building your own business. I know from talking to you that you've done some single family residences, you have also done investing in multifamily. I know you're in Nashville, one of the things we didn't talk about, or I can't remember, at least and I don't see it, is if you are continuing to invest beyond your backyard. If you are doing that, that would be great to know. But I just I really want people to connect with you, right? Because you've got a great story to tell. And so I don't want to manipulate it. And so you got to do this, you got to do that, or, you know, you we already had the call. And so you have relevant things to talk about, and people are gonna connect with you. So that's really the only thing. Like, I'm feeling all the pressure because I gotta make sure that I get the right questions how that works. Is there anything that so let me turn it around is are there any particular areas where you feel super strong, or you really feel passionate that we should talk about that you really want to talk about,

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13:33

I think you'll probably hit on it. But what's happening for me like you, I'm, I've been letting things kind of grow organically, to see where the need is. And I've hit a point now where it's starting to come in starting to come in, like people are responding people are filling out forms, people contacting me. And you know, what's frightening as people are coming and saying, I have $50,000 You know, where do I send my money, and I'm like, not to make because I'm a good person, it'd be really easy to take advantage of someone. So I'm figuring out where I fit but where I think I fit is in the process of, you know, that, you know, where do you make your decision to invest? What are you comfortable with? What's your money culture like that guy Javier. I'd be like, I think he sounds miserable to me because his entire life is wrapped up in his in money. That actually sounds miserable to me. But so yeah, I don't I don't think so. I'm just still I'm just being transparent about you know, I listened to I loved your episode with Anna the real estate mom and Kelly. Yeah, she was great. And I'm gonna call her up especially cuz she's been to Russia, but I, you know, she's like, it's very clear, here's what I have, etc, etc. And I'm just sort of being honest about I'm still developing that but yeah, no, nothing. You just take your workouts

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Billy Keels  14:52

awesome. And your your multifamily. Are they active or passive? Have you done the path or you've done both?

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14:57

They are not active one acre one is we owned directly we have we have a management firm there. So that's even that, like, we don't go there and we should we should be more active. The second is a joint venture. Okay? So we're very, very passive on that. And now I'm looking at a syndication. Okay.

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Billy Keels  15:15

So more passive. Okay, but then but when I guess when I'm when I say active meaning that it's owned, it's owned directly by you and your business partner slash husband, or is it something that you've, you've put money together with other people, and it's being managed by a third party? So I've

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15:34

done both. So one is owned by my husband and I have 51 unit. The other is a joint venture with probably 10 other investors 67 units.

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Billy Keels  15:43

Okay, cool. So that's actually pretty cool. So you've done joint venture and if need be, we can maybe dig into that. And then also interested while you're now if you've done joint venture, you've done it on your own now you're looking at syndication, so that could actually be kind of an interesting thing as well. Yes,

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15:59

I need to get I'm, I'm in the process of getting educated more on syndication, okay, like Ashley Wilson, and and you, you know, because I really want to diversify. This is very interesting, though, because it's what you described your avatars like. And I haven't thought about that, not knowing what your listenership is. But it's really like some of the things you're saying are just so European, not American. And sort of that mindset of what do you mean real estate, etc. Interesting. And, of course, the vacation thing, we'd all kill for that. But

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Billy Keels  16:38

so everybody wants to go on vacation. And so it I mean, it makes for an interesting mix, right? Because I'm definitely from the United States. I get reminded that all the time, at the same time, I've been in for 20 years, right? So I've been influenced in the way that I see things or want to do things and vacation for me, it's like sacred time. And I take five weeks vacation, and I'm just fine with that. And I think about from a corporate job, right, because the corporate role, you know, it's the corporate role. And so when I'm not there, I'm not there. Right. And then the other is built in syndication. That's completely different animal.

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17:13

Yep. Yep.

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Billy Keels  17:15

Yes. Okay. So let's, let's chat. Let's chat. Let's chat. excited. I'm excited.

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17:26

My husband, I gave him a warning that he had, I can hear, we can hear you. I told I videotaped and I'm like, you have to be a tiny mouse. And he's there's nothing tiny about him. But he does have a door in his office. That's really bloody promised. Like I can hear. I can hear it comes down the stairs.

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Billy Keels  17:47

Okay, we can come around the corner. If you're gonna show up in the in the in the video.

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17:53

Oh, my gosh, yeah, he's up. We are building a new house and I will have an office with the door. I'm very excited.

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Billy Keels  18:00

Yeah, well, I've been I've been kicked out of my home. So I actually have We have an office over there. And my wife has told me like, it's time for you to go like you've got to get out of the house because I've been in the same area room in like a European flat for nine months. And she's like, You got to get out of here.

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18:15

Yeah, cuz she's confined and you have kids at home and correct. Yeah.

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Billy Keels  18:20

Yeah. Nine and 11. Boys 11 with a lot of energy.

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18:24

Yeah. Well, I keep up with you on social. So I see you out there. And like they're so cute. They're so great. Yeah,

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Billy Keels  18:30

like thankfully, they've got a nice cool, cute mom. Yeah, that helps. Yes, definitely. All right, here we go. Here we go. Here we go. I go through this thing in my brain again. There we go. Alright. Welcome to the going long podcast, we're back once again, to continue to help to educate you so that you feel much more comfortable as well as confident investing beyond your backyard. I'm your host, Billy keels. And you know, what, if you want to know what steps to take to create your own micro Empire, and guess what, this is the show that is absolutely for you. And you'll know why in just a few minutes. Because today's guest was not only a single mom at the age of 40 with, you know, no assets, no retirement funds. And it didn't just happen once. It actually happened twice. And she's going to tell us a little bit more about that. You know, over the span of four years after that, though, with her W two job, a lot of grit and a lot of faith. She created over $1 million in income producing investments that allowed her to get on the track that set her straight. And she's also the founder of ginger fry grin. Grissom. Grimson I'm gonna do this all over. That's

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19:57

right, it's fine. And he's upstairs now at the doors. chat some sorry about that. Oh, hopefully you record it. No, I

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Billy Keels  20:03

can't. I can't even redo that again. Right. Yeah. So this is all recording. Yes. So yeah.

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20:06

But you're recording your audio tracks on separate drawings, right. Yes. Yeah.

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Billy Keels  20:10

So this will be all done. So that's good. Oh, there you go. I screwed that one up. That was fun. That works out. Hey, Andy, can you make sure that that ends up? In a really cool real spells

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20:21

do that? Let's both do that at the same time. See, this is the thing. I mean, it's very isolating time, but like yesterday, I like today I'm talking to you in Spain, but I've been to Sedona, Arizona, Colorado Springs, Savannah, Georgia, New York and Idaho, like in one day, so and I get to, you know, so it's not bad. It's not a bad way to that is awesome. And then we just had a morning dance party. So

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Billy Keels  20:48

there you go. So that was awesome. So now, um, that was really funny. Um, cool. Here we go. Andy, take two. Here we go. All right. Welcome to the gone long podcast, we're back once again, to continue to help to educate you so that you feel much more comfortable as well as confident investing beyond your backyard. I'm your host, Billy keels. And, you know, if you've ever wanted to know what steps to take to create your own micro empire, then guess what, this is absolutely the conversation that you're going to want to listen to, until the very last word I promise, because today's guest at at age 40, as a single mom had no assets, no retirement account, and some would say no money. You know what, and it didn't just happen to her once. It happened to her twice. And I really want her to talk to us about how that happened. Because you know what, afterwards, over the span of four years, with a w two job and a whole lot of grit, she was able to create over $1 million of income producing investments to help her to get on the right track. She is also the founder of Jennifer Grimson investments, as well as the host of the super popular podcast micro empires podcast. Really happy to welcome to the show, Jennifer Grimson. Welcome to so Jennifer.

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22:04

Thank you. I'm excited to be here, Philly,

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Billy Keels  22:07

I am super excited to be here. This is gonna be such an amazing conversation. I'm already already positive about that. So listen, Jennifer, you know, the, you know the deal here. I like to ask everybody, well, the same kind of five questions. And we're gonna start with two, we'll end with the other three. But let's start with the first one. Where do you live in the United States.

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22:28

I live in Nashville, Tennessee, which is, if you aren't familiar with United States, it's the South. It's a state in the south central area of the country. So it's still warm here. And I actually live in the east side, which if you've been to Nashville, you understand it. And it's a really cool town. So I've been here about 15 years. But that's where I am at this exact moment. All

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Billy Keels  22:52

right, fantastic. Nashville. I've actually been here for just over 15 years as well. And yes, I can say Nashville is a pretty awesome town. I was there back in 1996. I

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22:59

think it was, oh, you need to come back. It's changed a lot. All right. Well, I

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Billy Keels  23:03

got it back then. So listen, so that was kind of where you are, help us understand what is the most positive thing that's happened to you in the last 24 hours?

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23:12

You know, a lot of things have happened. Just I mean, I think at this time in our lives, I'm just so grateful for health and everything else. But we we've stayed pretty locked down. But because Nashville is still warm, we were able to go out to dinner last night, sit outside and have a dinner. And you know, I'm grateful for little things like that at this point. Because that's not possible everywhere else. So that to see people not be with people, but see them.

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Billy Keels  23:39

Oh, that's, that's great. And I love the fact that you just helped to remind us, it's many times those little thing, just being outside with loved ones and being able to have a nice dinner. So, so awesome. So listen, I've kind of told a little teeny tiny bit of your story. But everyone would love to know if you could give us in your own words a little bit more about your backstory, maybe tell us about some of the things that you've done that helped you get to this point in your journey. And also, most importantly, like some of the different decisions that you made along the way.

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24:07

Yeah, so my story is that I lost everything twice. I usually just start off by saying that because that encapsulate encapsulate it can encapsulates it. And when I say I lost everything, I found myself with no money, no job, no car, no place to live. And two children who I was the sole financial responsibility for the second time it happened, I realized, because I had corporate jobs. So the second time it happened, I realized that I needed to set up an environment a life of what I call micro empires, like little tiny empires that belong to me. So if anything gave I lost my job or, you know, I had a bad breakup or I made a bad investment that there would be other things to fall back on. And so that's what I did. Over a period Did I mean it took a while to rebuild my credit, I also had been in chapter 13 Bankruptcy twice. But once I rebuilt the credit, it really was short time in four years, I created $1.4 million in income producing investments. And I did that largely through real estate. And I just realized in that process that there were a lot of tools that were already at my disposal that I really wasn't aware of, I wasn't aware of how to manipulate those tools. So I created the podcast, because I wanted to share that. But also, I had kept that a secret. That was a I was very, very ashamed. And most people are most people who are making financial mistakes are very ashamed. And in the United States, most people are not financially secure. So I decided that I was going to share the story and just come right out and say what has happened. And what it has unlocked is and what I'm creating is an environment where people can just be honest about where they are, and where they can begin. So that's, that's it in a nutshell.

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Billy Keels  26:07

Well, so I think that's that I mean, that's a that's a big concept, right to feel comfortable about where you are, and have a safe place to be able to do that. You know, I'm going to pick up on a couple of things that you just mentioned, you talked about people feeling ashamed, right, people feeling ashamed. And I'm just curious, kind of what, what do you believe is the reason that people feel ashamed? And what specifically do you think they are ashamed of?

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26:38

Well, you know, you do in your show, you ask a series of questions. In my show, I always open with one question, I always ask the guests what what is your money culture? What did you grow up in your money culture, because in the United States, specifically, there's a there's a national money culture, there's a culture that you grew up in, there's a culture that you have in your, in your marriage, there's a culture of the town you live in, or the city you live in. And there is a lot of pressure to have an appearance that you are better off than you are in the United States. And that therefore, causes shame because statistically, the average American cannot afford a $400 emergency. And much of that is a healthcare crisis. Because unlike in, in Europe, we are strapped with how to deal with our own health care. And it's very expensive. But a $400 emergency. And now in this business that I'm creating, I talk to people about their money every day. And I talk to people that are in crisis. And I talk to people who are earning well over six figures and are in crisis, because they spend as much as they make and more because they had no financial literacy. We don't really teach it in schools here. So if you want to get financially literate, you really are on your own, probably after you get out of high school to find that out. So I think that's where the shame comes from. And there's this pressure to, to have this attitude of, Oh, I've got it all together. And I have no worries. And just within a few questions, I'm usually able to find out that most people have either been in my situation or close to being in that situation that I was in.

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Billy Keels  28:27

Okay, so so either haven't been there or being close to, to being there. And I'm sure that that helps you to really make a connection with a lot of different people that you are, that you're also helping and that you're also educating. And you also said something interesting, well, first, thanks for clarifying that just in terms of the ashamed because I think that's a such a strong word. And you really help us to identify with that, and part of that culture, whether it be at a at a macro level, or at a macro level. So So one of the other things that you mentioned, you said that it's a tool to manipulate. I love that, right. And I think sometimes when people hear you say manipulate a certain tool, they may not really understand, because I know what you mean by that. But if you can help to clarify, because I think it's such a powerful way to set yourself free, you're on the right path. Right?

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29:19

Yeah, manipulation can be a bad word. And it can be a really good word. So and I if I had to make a blanket statement, I would say to anybody listening to the show, the first thing I recommend to people is take a look at what you have right now. And if you can manipulate any of that or use it in a different way, because a lot of us don't do that we we decide we're gonna go off and make a big investment and make money there when there might be something you can do that you're already doing. So when I talk about manipulation, I mean, I had to I didn't know that I could borrow against my 401k which is a retirement savings while I was working. I didn't know that I could pay Just a home for 3% down, as long as I moved into it, I didn't know that I could take an old 401 K and turn it into a tool that allows me to invest in real estate. So those are just some of the tools the the 401k as a, as a corporate person here in the United States, I was like, oh, yeah, I'm contributing to that blah, blah, blah, didn't really know much about it didn't really understand much about it. Once I realized how it could be used to pay off debt, or to buy houses, I bought two houses by borrowing against a 401k paid off a car, you can pay off your student loans, you can do a lot of things. And there's no penalty or tax, because, because I mean, I consider myself a pretty smart person. But I think like many people in the corporate world, I believe my 401k was untouchable until I reached the age of 59. And if I did touch it in any way, that I would have to pay taxes and penalty, and that's just not true. And

‍

Billy Keels  30:57

so and also too, and this is just part of doing the podcasting, one of the things that you're sharing with us, and you gave us some really cool examples around the 401k, and how you can also be able to tap into that to pay off different obligations that you may have. I want all of our listeners and our viewers to know that like one of the things, Jennifer's not sharing tax advice with you, she's just sharing her own experience. So what we're talking about now is you want to make sure that you look at what we're talking about. And and understand that with your specific tax advisers or whoever your advisors are right. And so I appreciate you sharing that with us. And I just want to also make sure that everybody here that's watching and listening also knows that we're sharing, sharing stories to help you become much more informed. So you know, so you kind of already took part of it, because you talked about being able to like you didn't know about the 401 K. And then once you found out about it, it really opened up this whole new universe of possibilities, which goes back to what we were talking about before to be able to manipulate a particular tool, meaning that you get the most out of that specific tool. When you are when when you when you learn about it, right? How nervous were you when you found out that hey, listen, you know what I can actually tap into my 401k? And actually do some things that don't feel right.

‍

32:12

Well, one of the things about being flat broke and homeless twice does for you is it gives you the attitude of like, well, what have I got to lose? Right? So the first thing that I had to do was to I mean, initially it was to find a place to live, obviously, and I live with my sister and then rented a place but ultimately purchased a home and did it the old fashioned way. I had terrible credit. So I purchased a home had to put down a huge downpayment moved into my home. Realize that everything. You know, when I talk about manipulation, everything has to have more than one job. So I felt that my home had to do more than just provide shelter. So I started renting out to friends. And then I discovered Airbnb. And that was a real game changer. But when which it's funny, because when you talk about nervousness, I discovered Airbnb in 2014. And when I was telling people about it, they're like, What do you mean, you're gonna let people sleep on your couch? And I said, What I mean is that in six nights, I can pay my mortgage. That's what I mean. So I didn't care and I just started couchsurfing at friend's houses. So I had no I had like, nothing to lose, I was willing to try anything. When I discovered the 401k Avenue, and I had an old 401k, which is really how I how I got started initially, but I was also still working a job. So I was contributing heavily to that. I had done my due diligence. So part of the reason I call the show micro Empire's is I encouraged people, I'm not a big risk risk taker. So I encourage people to take micro risks to take little steps. So I spent a lot of time getting to know people, interviewing people who specialize in an interview people who, who know, had done it before, before I took the leap. And the first thing I did was I borrowed to pay off a car. And then I borrowed again to buy a house. And it was like for 3% down. And it was just a no brainer. It just made complete sense. So I really wasn't that nervous. And then when I moved the bigger, old 401k was $150,000. That's also something that I do on my shows I share all the numbers, because a lot a lot of the real estate shows or the things that I've seen, they're kind of very vague, so I like to let people where it was. So I moved $250,000 into a self directed IRA. But it was just sitting there anyway, it's not like it was outperforming on the stock market and you can still move it in there and invest in the stock market. You don't have to put it into real estate. But I purchased stock in a company that allows me to travel the world and luxury. That was number one it doesn't pay me but it pays me in travel. And and then the other was I made an investment. Actually that investment is in land which we are going to liquidate in Prague We put back into multifamily or storage.

‍

Billy Keels  35:03

And there's a number of different areas that you can go into right multifamily storage, you can land bank, and they give you different profiles of risk and return, which I think also just shows that you can do a number of different things with it within a similar asset class. Right. So looking at real assets, but there's also something that you said, I just want to highlight that it's not all about the money, right? You also have a part of your investment is about getting an emotional return, because you love to travel. Right? Right.

‍

35:32

Right. I, I did a video episode about alternative investing. And I did it from a place in Mexico that because I because we made this investment in a company called third home, we have access to these luxury locations all over the world. And so I did this video from a four bedroom 6000 square foot suite in Mexico that I stayed at for like, under $1,000 for a week. So I don't have an actually, I'm going to offer for your listeners, we'll put a link in here because there is a way to do this without being an investor or having a luxury home. And it's not a timeshare, so I'd love to share that with your traveling audience. But, yeah, I think I think an investment for me an investment has to pay me cash, or it has to give me something that I need anyway, whether that's education, you know, or something that I really want in my life and travel is certainly, you know, something that I love to do.

‍

Billy Keels  36:31

I'm also a very big fan of travel.

‍

36:34

I think all people in Europe are Yeah,

‍

Billy Keels  36:36

so speaking of which, so I know that you had an opportunity to live overseas, right? And so I'm always curious, I know you you lived in Russia, and which in a mazing city that I visited back in the 90s, something like that. But I'm interested to know from your perspective, like how that experience living overseas is actually benefiting you in the in the people that you're working with your team, your investors, how did that international experience help you and what you're doing today add more value to other people.

‍

37:14

You know, I lived in Russia while it was still communist. So I was there studying as a student. I was there for about five months. And so that was a long time ago. But I think universally what it taught me I mean, I knew I went to school in San Francisco, and I was liberal college kid and all those things. But I knew at my heart that I was a capitalist, and I knew that I was also a patriot. So I when I went to Russia, it underscored just experiencing a true communist society. And what that looks like. And what it does to the people and communist as communism as a core is an equal opportunity to poverty. That's what it is. That doesn't take away from socialist programs, which can benefit whole, whole communities. But at the time, living in a country where everybody that I knew, and I'm still friends with my Russian friends to this day, many of them have emigrated to the United States. Having an experience with folks that had grown up in an environment where it doesn't matter how hard you work, you're not going to do better than the person next to you who's not working hard at all. And that is not for me. So it's solidified. You know, my, my card carrying capitalist identity. And, you know, it just, it was an incredible lesson that I carry through today.

‍

Billy Keels  38:43

You know, and a lot of times when you can get those lessons and that are still with you even to this day, right? A lot of times people think well, it's about all the things that I want, the experiences that you go through in life, many times, it's about being able to recognize the things that you don't want in your life. Right. And so, I think, I think it's well, it's Robert Kiyosaki, right this is there's three sides to every coin so you kind of look either one and you you look on the on the edge and figuring out what what you want for yourself for your life for your family. And so that's that's just another example of having had that so um, nothing so you've also had the opportunity I know you've worked in sales and we speak to a lot of people that are in the in the sales environment here and some part of the I think one of the best professions if not the best profession ever created invented I guess. And I'm curious also to like as you think about the the sales experience that you had, right, and that you still carry today, how is that helping you in your interactions with your investors?

‍

39:53

Yeah, I sales is everything. So I got like, you know, when I started into sales, I didn't want to go into sales because I thought, oh, it's smarmy, it's but I had a totally different mindset, I really, you know, poverty mindset, you know, and I didn't understand, but sales is the only job that you can have other than being a CEO, where you have exposure to every level in a business, every, if you have a big deal on the table, the CEO, no matter how big the company is interested in you, and you have access to all of the workings of the organization, you will do the same at the organizations that you're selling to you're selling especially in once you're up in the C suite and selling. So my sales career, I was very grateful to because it gave me the money to survive the financial downfalls that I had, and it gave me the freedom to be with my kids, I was a full time single mom, I had full custody. And, and I didn't say this before, but I'll say it now, my financial mistakes, the reasons, the reason I ended up in that situation twice, was because I was sued 25 times in 10 years by my ex husband. Now, I don't think it really matters how I got there. But some people overspend, you know, by lightning, you know, they just spend beyond their means that wasn't the case with me. But it doesn't matter. It's how I got there. And it's a career that it's the only career that it doesn't matter what gender you are, what race you are, all that matters is how you perform. And I'd rather be measured on my performance than anything else. So that is tantamount to my life. And in this business here, as I'm building my team, like like you've done, the one thing I don't need help with, I do not need help selling. And that would be a very expensive item to hire someone if I didn't know how to sell how to network, how to make it rain.

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Billy Keels  41:50

Yeah. And that is really, really important. And part of the reason asking that question, right is a lot of times people are focused on the sales aspect and being able to bring in the capital, all those things that you talked about, it's goes back to also one of the things you talked about before, it's not always just about the money. And just have understanding that sales process when you're interacting with prospective investors, for instance, what is having had that experience and understanding how to interact with you know, a new prospective client having that previous sales experience, how does that you believe help you engage with the with the person that you have in front of you? Well,

‍

42:31

I in the the system that I'm setting up now, I'm I'm not investors are coming to me, but I'm not taking investors but I am the investor. Going to other whether it's joint venture or syndication, etc, I think the skillet has given me is, can I swear on this episode? is

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Billy Keels  42:53

as long as you keep it like, okay. If not, we'll get a little worried about it. It's just it's my

‍

42:59

choice. Yeah, let's go. Like sales has taught me like my ability to tolerate bullshit is zero. And so it's very easy for me to, to get the feeling that I can trust or not trust you, which is part of it. But but my gut, you know, you can just go on your gut, my gut has been wrong in the past. I'm unafraid to ask questions. I'm unafraid to ask for anything I want, whether that's, you know, a higher position or more equity or whatever it is that we're talking about, unafraid to negotiate. And as a whole women tend to not ask for what they need as a whole. That's an all parts of their lives. So that alone is something that I learned in sales, and it's probably the strongest muscle I have right now is my ability to ask for things.

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Billy Keels  43:50

So I think that is fantastic in those interactions, right? Either you're looking at prospective prospective investors or customers, or you are that prospective investor. So that those are the types of skills that I think are invaluable for anyone. So thanks for thanks for sharing that. There's also another point of you mentioned being successful in sales. You've had lots and lots of accolades. At the same time, you got to a certain point, Jennifer, where you realize, like, you didn't just want to keep working for big companies, and you had to make the decision to kind of pivot and leave that security or leave that whatever you want to call it. Can you talk us through some of what that felt like what that emotion was like when you made that decision? And kind of what drove you to that point that it was time to do something else? Yeah.

‍

44:42

I have an episode called the one year mark. And the day that I decided to leave my corporate job I recorded. I had no idea I was going to be doing a podcast in the future. But I recorded a memo on my phone that just was me walking through Through what and why, and what I was feeling. And I was terrified, absolutely terrified. Again, I'm not a huge risk risk taker. And I had built, what I had done was created three short term rental properties here in Nashville, Tennessee. And the the tourism industry had exploded. These properties were performing, you know, phenomenally. And I had promised myself that once I was keep numbers in my head, and I knew what the numbers were that I had to have to be comfortable enough to try something different. I knew there wouldn't be room for something else in my life, if I didn't leave my corporate job, because it takes 60 7080 hours a week plus, you're traveling. So I decided that once those houses were kicking off cash flowing $60,000 a year that I would quit the job, I made myself that promise. Now in the United States, the only other concern is health insurance. My children are grown. So I didn't have that obligation anymore. And I had been single for 20 years, but I had recently married so I, you know, I don't want it to make it sound like I just jumped off and got my own health insurance, because it's a big consideration. But I'm able to be insured with my husband, which is, which is good. But that recording, I'm terrified. I'm absolutely terrified, but also absolutely miserable. It was good at what I did. And I hated it. I stayed for three reasons, the money, the money, the money. That's it. And so I quit that job on November 28 22,018. And right after that, for the three months following for the first time in five years, five years, four years, all three properties sat empty. Yeah, at a drain, yeah, at a drain of $7,000 a month. So I'm sweating bullets, because that was my carrying cost $7,000 A month. I'm sweating bullets. And here in Nashville, it's Music City. It's also healthcare technology hub. But there are a lot of Grammy Award winning musician. So I have a friend who said to me, oh, that's just the universe testing you. And I said, well, the universe can kiss my butt. Because I've been tested. I don't need to be tested anymore. But what it did? So you know, the short answer to your question is that I was terrified. But I did it anyway, because I promised myself and because I had abandoned myself over and over and over again. And I say this to people all the time, I have to remind myself all the time, don't abandon yourself. But it also another part of my investment strategy is once an asset starts to underperform to what I'm comfortable with, I am quick to let it go. I am quick to get out and move on. My husband is the type of investor will he'll hold on. So short term rental is a great example. That year 2019. Those properties did not perform as well as they had before. And I decided first I unloaded the one that was a really poor performer immediately in 19. And then I unloaded the other two in February of 2020 30 days before COVID hit. So I'm very fortunate in that. But it really was because I was looking at it going this is not this is not there are easier ways to make money than short term rental.

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Billy Keels  48:24

How sorry to interrupt but how did you know that it was like it was not performing against what standard because I think a lot of times people just hold on to properties because they're still making money and that, but you you hit on something here, which is they weren't performing performing against what

‍

48:38

well performing against the numbers that they had been performing against watching the competition. So here in Nashville, the tourist industry exploded. And once people started to understand what Airbnb was, you know, their investors coming in building buildings with rooftop pools and fireplaces, and I can't compete with my little houses. On those where they had been, you know, performing, they were still doing much better than a long term rental. But also the shift was Nashville had become was putting in a lot of regulation. And part of why I like being an entrepreneur, a podcaster. And investor is because I don't like to be told what to do. So the city kept putting regulation after regulation after regulation. And I just was like, I didn't get into this for that I got into this because it's my asset. And being a true American. I'm like, You're not gonna tell me what to do. So that was it. It was still performing better than a long term. And when COVID hit I watched and I'm still watching folks who are still in that industry, it will come back, short term rentals not going anywhere. It has shifted our economy entirely. But I watched people hang on, hang on, hang on and not pivot. And across the board. Those are the those are the businesses that are suffering the most the ones that didn't go something has radically changed. Let's pivot even if we have to go back to what we're doing before, but that's universally true over here in the States, okay,

‍

Billy Keels  50:05

and that that's also helpful give us an idea in terms of when it was underperforming, kind of against what was going on there. And you having that ability to adapt and move quickly, is something that can can give you a major advantage. I'm also because we've kind of talked around a little bit, and you've mentioned it, and I know that you are also really big into going out sharing your experience helping other people in their journey. So tell us a little bit about what you are doing over at micro empires, and who are the people that you are typically helping? And when you're engaging with them? What does that what does that look like? What does that feel like as well? Yeah,

‍

50:41

you know, the micro Empire is the whole every single show, I want you to be able to walk away with something that you can do, you could do that day, and I really focus on not I mean, I wouldn't say like the average person, because what's average, I don't know what average is. But there, I really focus on giving tactical steps that you can take that day, part of moving into investing, or entrepreneurship or anything else, is the overwhelming, you know, size of what it seems like to you. And you don't have to start that way, you could start with micro risks, micro information, micro investing, you know, everything can be done in small chunks. And I couldn't take big risks, because I had children to think of, I couldn't put it all on the line. That was not, that wasn't the advice for me, I wasn't gonna go like quit your job and jump off the bridge and follow your dreams. I'm like, Yeah, well, my dreams are to be spoon fed for the rest of my life, that's not happening. So I just, that is the goal. And I have people who pitch to be a guest on my show. And they're very, very successful. And that's wonderful. But if they can't boil it down to what anybody can do, then they're not a good fit for my show. And so I always need them to reach back into their roots. I mean, you know, I'd love Gary Vaynerchuk to be on my show or Tony Robbins, but what I'm really interested in is the little steps they took in the beginning, because that's where most of us are. And, and most of us there who, whether you're making 40,000 or 400,000, that's the American truth. So

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Billy Keels  52:26

now that's an I would even take it a bit more global, it I think it's a global truth, which is, which is which, which is great. And it's also one of the great ways that you're giving back that you're helping others to, to understand really those actionable steps, because that's what makes the biggest impact on our lives individually. So I guess, there's a certain point where, like, I just want to keep talking to you forever, I want to keep asking you things. And talking about your life and all the things that you're doing. And you know, there's always the opportunity to come back. Right. So that's the, that's the cool thing. Um, but I do want to ask one last question before we go into the going long, final three. And you're like an open book, it feels great being able to speak to you. And I'm just curious, because you mentioned also having children, you're in a demanding corporate job, you knew it was time for you to do something else. So you wanted to pivot. And I'd really love for you to help us understand what role humility has played in your life, to allow you to get to where you are.

‍

53:37

Oh, my God, that is such a good question, by the way, well done. I think humility is huge, I think, you know, coming to my sister and having no place to live, and she and her family taking us in for four months until I could find a job was humility. Calling people up and asking them I need a job like now was humility. But also when I decided to become once I you know, had a home and had an income, had a good income and was doing really well as a salesperson. I wanted to get into investing. I knew real estate would be a piece of it. I knew that so I joined a real estate investor group and I'll never forget, I walked in and mostly men big group here in Nashville, great group. And they were speaking a language I'd never heard of self directed IRA 1031 exchanges syndication, joint ventures, you know, none of those words that I understand if people would ask me well, what are you doing? Are you a buy and hold? Are you new build? Are you developer I'm like, I don't know what I am. What are you doing to do hard money? What's that? I don't know. And I'm going to show something to your listeners. For those that are watching. One of the things that I did was I had a card and by

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Billy Keels  54:53

the way if you're not watching before she says this you should move over to the video version and watch what she's getting ready to show.

‍

54:59

I don't even know this. I'm Exciting, so exciting. It you know, so humility was I am, I am not afraid to ask questions. Probably one of the best compliments I got was from a 26 year old, multimillion dollar CEO who said to me, I've never met someone your age, which I didn't punch him in the face for that comment. But I said, he said, I've never met someone your age who's so as curious and wants to hear from someone my age. And I thought, you know, Curiosity has kept me young. But it was the humility to go in and go, I have no idea what anybody's talking about. And I'm here to learn. But the second time I went back, I brought this with me, it's a little business card. And it just says this. And on the back, I knew enough to say, here's my title was investor, entrepreneur, artist. And that's it, so that I had something because I also believe it's not really fake it till you make it, but it is kind of like act as if so I showed up, and I was like, I own a piece of property, therefore, I'm an investor. But yeah, humility is a huge part of my life every single day.

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Billy Keels  56:04

Okay, awesome. And thanks for thanks for sharing that story. And pretty awesome business card there, by the way. Very cool. So and I'm not gonna even describe it, because people should go over and watch the video version. So you can check out what it looks like. Wow, that's

‍

56:18

awesome. Very simple. Very, very, very

‍

Billy Keels  56:21

cool. Very cool. Jennifer, I guess this is kind of we need to get to the going long, final three. And so Okay, as I never asked the question, unless you told me that you're ready for me to ask you to have going on in front of three.

‍

56:31

Are you ready? Lay it on me.

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Billy Keels  56:33

I knew you already are born ready. So it's awesome. Here we go. So the first question of the going long final three is, we started over on that side of the pond, I want to bring it back this way to Europe, because that's where I live. And I would love to know what is your favorite European city that you either visited or still on your bucket list to visit?

‍

56:52

There's a million on my bucket list. So I will say I Well, we went to Portugal just before everything shut down. And we spent a lot of time Lipson lives in Lisbon. Sorry, which I loved. But I want to say Porto.

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Billy Keels  57:09

Oh my god, I love that. Okay, yeah. Because

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57:13

I, you know, I'm a redhead. So it's like, the sun is overrated, you know, so it's a little, a little colder up there. And we stay in our turtlenecks a little longer. So very cool. That's my favorite. I

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Billy Keels  57:23

love the first vote for Porto so important to us, which is awesome. Okay, so we'll take that. Thank you very much. We'll include that in show notes. The second question has to do with Well, like I say, all, like really successful people have only made literally one Whoa, okay, maybe a couple more than one mistakes or learning opportunities, or whatever you want to call them. And since you're a successful person, I really would love for you to share, like, I guess more than dwell on the mistake or that or the other learning opportunity. Really, what was the lesson that you learned that you would kind of pay forward to us so that maybe somebody doesn't make the exact same mistake that you did? Right?

‍

58:01

Well, first of all, I would say I make mistakes all the time. So I'm not a person who says, Oh, I've only made a couple of mistakes. Yeah, I'm like, I'm a mistake, machine, man. That's kind of what I ate them for breakfast. My, my advice is never, ever, ever, ever turn your financial well being over to another human being at all, not your husband, not your wife, not even an you know, I'm not saying financial advisors are bad or anything, but don't show up and just be like, here you go, you manage it, you have to be involved, and you must take control. And this is part of the thing, like even if all you have is $5,000, it's yours, and therefore it's an empire. So that's how I felt, I'm like, yes, you're gonna spend a lot of time with me. So and that is exactly how I got into that situation twice. I turned my financial well being over to someone else, and let it go. And that'll never happen again. So

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Billy Keels  58:55

don't so don't do that. Words of wisdom. And then lastly, talking about wisdom. So what book would you recommend to the going long audience? Well,

‍

59:04

I know you get a lot of real estate books, which are great. But I think especially because your audience, the book that changed my life the most was the four hour workweek, which I read when it first came out, that changed my attitude. And you know what my dad had passed away and he had saved on the usual work, work, work, work, work, retired at 65. Six months later, he was gone. And so the biggest lesson I got on that was don't wait for your retirement. Take it now which Europeans have a much better take on that because they take vacations, etc. But it did teach me to shift. And I also that's probably when I was like, I don't want to climb a corporate ladder. I want my own ladder. So it changed my life. Okay,

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Billy Keels  59:48

for our work week, so we'll definitely include that in the show notes as well. And and so I guess Listen, so we've been chatting for a while and you have been very, very gracious with your store. ways with your time. I mean, you've shared with us, you know, being able to kind of go through the same situation twice. And he talked about being able to, you know, hustle things through, but in grit and hard work, and being focused on what it is that you wanted to do when you ran into challenges where you pivoted, you didn't just wait forever. You realize that having responsibility for your own financial life is something that is up to you, and you're helping other people to make it up to them. It's not about the macro, although that's something that's important. What affects each and every one of us, you know, that affects you is what's happening micro, right. And you're helping people to understand how they can build their own micro empires. And I know that through the different stories that you've shared through all of the different things that you are helping us there are so many people that are like, Jennifer, I need to talk to you, like, I've got to talk to you, I got to connect with you. How's that going to happen? So what I would love for you to do Jennifer share with the going on audience, what is the best way to contact you, and or your team?

‍

1:01:00

You know, my websites probably easy. So it's micro dash empires.com. And on there, I have a book, it's a free book called How to pivot and thrive. Really, under it's a system that I've used always. And you can download that book, it's free, there's no obligation, nothing you can you can read through it and fill it out. It's really a booklet, it's just, it's not very long. Or you can fill out there's a form, you can fill out a form and I'll get it and I'll respond and you can book time to talk with me. But of course on all the socials, either microbe empires or Jennifer Grimson.

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Billy Keels  1:01:33

Okay, perfect. So you make that really easy. So I'm just going to repeat that. And I'm going to just remind everybody, that's part of the going long audience, go ahead and go over to the following website, micro dash empires.com. She made it really simple. You can go around lots of information, podcasts, resources, as you mentioned, as well leave your name, leave your email address, and you'll be able to connect with Jennifer Grimson. So Jennifer, and

‍

1:01:59

subscribe and review. Subscribe and review. Yeah, before we go, I think we have to take a moment to identify how you and I met. Oh,

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Billy Keels  1:02:09

yeah. That's so funny. I was just getting ready to say it's really I was good to hear this. Yeah. So he will hear it. So we'd like to throw this shout out to Mr. Eric shaver, for making connection here. And yeah, so we appreciate that. It was really funny. I was literally just,

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1:02:28

you know what I met Eric, just want to say this. So I met Eric in Boston at a startup. And it has to have been, I don't even remember. Well, it was when 911 happened. So it was 2000 wants to 2120 years ago. And that's just a testimony to you know how important your network is and keep your network going. I haven't seen ever laid eyes on that man and 20 years, but we still keep in touch. So keep the network going. And then I get to meet amazing people like you. Yeah,

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Billy Keels  1:02:56

definitely. Definitely. So so with that. That was really fun. That was literally erased. So So Thanks II for for making that happen. And yeah, listen, Jennifer, you've shared so much goodness, I really want to thank you for taking the time to invest with me in this conversation today. And the entire going on audience been awesome. Awesome. Awesome. So thank you very much. For the time.

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1:03:17

It's been really fun. I really appreciate it. I love talking to you. And it's we never have enough time. So I really love it.

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Billy Keels  1:03:24

Never Never never cool. So listen to the going on audience I want to thank you once again for investing your time with Jennifer and I today. Listen, Jennifer's left so much goodness here she's giving you very micro actionable steps that you can take so that you can start to move your life in the direction that you really want it to be in. And you know, I know that both Jennifer and I would love for you to let us know what you think like what what parts of the conversation Did you like? What would you love for her to come back and talk to us more about in the in the future? And when you're leaving those reviews, let us know. Like we just we really want to know and if you want to make them a five star review, we'll take those as well. So yeah, we're open to those and I guess share this episode with two or three other people you can make a positive impact on their lives and and you'll be that person that was responsible just like we were just talking about Eric connected the two of us and so hey, listen to it's another great way to to connect people and so until I get the opportunity to welcome you back to the next conversation I just want to say thank you very much and go out and make it a great day. Thank you Thanks for having me on. All right, fine. That was a lot of fun. That was a lot of sorry I went over which means we're not going to be able to check

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1:04:38

no it's fine. You have a hard you're going oh you are you're late already No

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Billy Keels  1:04:42

no, no, no, no, I've got to be there in 25 minutes.

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1:04:45

Okay,

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Billy Keels  1:04:46

but um, I am and I apologize apologize apologize apologize, but and so I will be super super flexible to figure out when we can we can get some time. I'm even having to do it tomorrow. If you want Yeah,

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1:05:00

you know what I am? Thinking about tomorrow tomorrow probably won't work. But my Calendly I usually booked Tuesday, Thursday, just grab a time that works for you. Okay, that's fine. When how far in advance Are you recording and when they go out, so

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Billy Keels  1:05:17

normally? Normally they're pretty there were like, We got to a point where I was doing way too many episodes. And we were kind of like seven weeks, eight weeks. But because we've been at the end of the year, and I've been doing a lot of things, I've been doing less interviews, so I'm expecting this is going to probably be four to six weeks, something like that. Okay, work for you. Yeah,

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1:05:39

it's fine. I'm I did the same thing. Like I suddenly realized I had four months, because I only do one episode a week, I had four months of episodes in the can. So I just stopped interviewing because then it's, you know, it'll be totally different. You're

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Billy Keels  1:05:52

like, Hey, hang on a second. It's wintertime, you're like, well, winter, February, your February, but we're in December. Right.

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1:05:59

What's happened? Right? Right, exactly. Okay, sounds good. We'll just grab a time that works for you. And we'll do this again. Okay,

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Billy Keels  1:06:09

so I will do that. And I will do it relatively quickly. So I'm sorry. Like I said, sorry about that. Um, no

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1:06:15

worries.

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Billy Keels  1:06:16

How are things just in general? Like, what are you? What are you guys up to? What are you working on?

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1:06:19

We are. We are building a house. Well, it was being built and we put it under contract. So that should be done sometime between March and June. It's like five miles from where I am right now.

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Billy Keels  1:06:34

Awesome. Now is the investment property is at home. This is home. Okay.

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1:06:38

And we had, I'm hoping it's home for a long time because I've moved many, many many times. And, you know, I'm looking for my next thing like I said, like I I'm, I haven't done syndication before I've done joint venture. And you know, I what we this is all learning process. And we've learned we are passive, we like the passive we don't like active because I want to do other things. But that's where we are we have an apartment complex that we're probably going to sell.

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Billy Keels  1:07:10

And my unit, right? Yep.

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1:07:12

And that and a lot of investors are coming in from the east because it's for them. It's so inexpensive in Nashville, because you've got Are you in Ohio, where your investments again, I

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Billy Keels  1:07:24

have investments in, in New Jersey. And so because I'm doing the same thing, right, so I have my direct investments are in New Jersey, and in South Carolina, I've got a mobile home park there. And then indirectly, through syndication through other syndications me as a passive investor in Indiana, and Ohio.

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1:07:48

Now, did you do that with the same syndicator? No,

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Billy Keels  1:07:51

no. So different indicators, two different indicators. One I knew through a real estate guys group, and then another syndicator. I knew through my tax team.

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1:08:01

Would you share those with me? Yeah, there's taking Yeah,

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Billy Keels  1:08:05

yeah. So yeah, definitely. What I definitely would, I would definitely share. So the so my tax person is not and I invested in a hotel, which I wouldn't highly recommend you do that, right. Yeah, that was that was back in 2017. And it's gonna work out eventually, right? Because it's all Yeah, it's back. And then the other is it so they close the syndication but I know that if I put you in touch with her before it was

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1:08:39

maybe you did get a drop a name and then I'll remember

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Billy Keels  1:08:46

I can hang on a second. Leave. I just went Blake. You know what I was Sonia. Sonia Lee, Sonia Lee. Okay. So she's, she's based out? She's based out in California.

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1:08:59

Do you know Ashley Wilson?

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Billy Keels  1:09:01

Yes. She was on the show. Not long ago. Wow. Okay, her but she was a guest on my on my on the podcast, like, so perfect half ago.

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1:09:08

So perfect. So I didn't know because I was looking through your episodes this morning. But um, I met her had her on my show and am then I was going through Pennsylvania. So we actually spent the night with her and her family. She's such a powerhouse. She's incredible. But yeah, as you know, she started overseas. Yeah.

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Billy Keels  1:09:26

So she was so she was over here working like project management, and one of the big pharmaceutical companies and so she's got that kind of mindset, right. And so when we were talking about she loves, loves that kind of stuff. And I think she'd mentioned that they have properties in not only not only in Pennsylvania, but also in Texas, which was a which was a big, like, was just cool. Like 20

‍

1:09:48

million. Yeah, she just close that 20 million. Yeah, she's incredible. She's and she's a syndicator. So but I'm, I'm sort of learning about it. And again, so I'm trying to build I do it as I just kind of interview different people see how I feel.

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Billy Keels  1:10:05

But yeah, like when you are looking out there because I know we talked about it before. I think we talked about it before I'm almost positive but what kind of when you are looking to do passive investments, what kind of stuff are you most attracted to like what most cars like is like, maybe I should be doing this stuff?

‍

1:10:22

Well, right now Self Storage just because the numbers seem amazing. And then industrial, which is really storage anyway, warehousing. But I mean, multifamily, you know, this, I mean, we went from, I don't think I'd ever do single family homes again, although we do we have a flat investment with David Osborne's group. You know, David Osborne, he's a huge, huge, huge, huge developer. And his is called, oh, I should remember anyway, they buy single family homes all over the country, 1000s of them, and so we just did a flat investment with them. Okay. But, you know, once we got into multifamily, and saw the upside of it, and especially now we it's a safe space. And, you know, people are coming out of the woodwork trying to buy that for the tax shelter. And the fact that, you know, there's 100% occupancy and a waiting list because an economy is, you know, about to take a even bigger hit. So all these people paying 2300 in rents are going to be looking for lower rents. Yep. So that's what I think, what do you think?

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Billy Keels  1:11:27

Um, well, in terms of what that people are going to be, there's going

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1:11:32

to be another? Yes. And you like in terms of investments, right? Yeah,

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Billy Keels  1:11:36

yeah. So right now, I like investments that are double digit IRR. If we can do 12 to 16% IRR, anything that has velocity. So it's, so I'm, I guess I'm more interested in how quickly can I get my capital back. So if there's an opportunity, that is, I'm not, I'm a risk adverse person. So this will probably sound a little bit crazy. But if I can get my money back in less than five years, and get a return on my capital, and it's, you know, it's fitting in that 12 to 16% IRR, then that's something that's usually going to attract my attention. It will definitely attract my attention if we can tack on tax tax benefits. And one of the things that will probably will will be going away soon, is the whole bonus depreciation thing. And so

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1:12:26

I'm typically cost segregation. So

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Billy Keels  1:12:29

there's so there's two things so that you have the cost segregation, which is the tool, right, which allows you to say, Okay, this, the house, the different components of the House have different schedules. So instead of it being 39 years are 27 and a half years, you can take an ever shorter time period. But then the way that you apply those different elements is where the specifically the bonus depreciation can help you. So it's kind of like the cost segue or cost segregation, get you to that point, and then tax code 179 or 160 8k, which is the bonus depreciation, that's really where we say, Okay, listen, we can really help you. If you're a six figure salary earner, and you need some help on passive or depending on the type of investment, it can even be against active income, which can be really, really awesome, then that's, those are the things that get my attention

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1:13:21

now. So is it you think it's going away because of the new administration? Or is there actually a time?

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Billy Keels  1:13:29

So both? Both, I believe it's the bonus depreciation is set to is, is scheduled to sunset in 2022? I would expect or anticipate, although I have no knowledge, right, that the new administration will say, that's one of the first things that has to go. Because quite honestly, I don't really know why it exists. But, you know, it's an exact code. So we follow the code.

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1:13:57

Yeah. And I think, um, I mean, I know there's talk about the 1031. him wanting to do away with that. I think I think it'd be very hard, though. I don't think that. Yeah,

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Billy Keels  1:14:11

I mean, there are massive, there are there would be massive consequences to that being taken away. Like there are, I mean, I don't know if it's billions or trillions of dollars that are kind of in that vehicle, right, like you talked about before, if you mess that up, then that can be a bad thing for the for the macro economy, which will crush a lot of people at the street level.

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1:14:35

Right. And I mean, the 1031 just keeps investors you know, accruing more debt, larger assets, which bring in, you know, housing and jobs. So I don't see the downside of it. I don't see getting capital gains on that being the big upside on that.

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Billy Keels  1:14:55

No, I don't Yeah, I don't know.

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1:14:58

I didn't know about that first. Free. Okay, so yeah, bonus depreciation.

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Billy Keels  1:15:01

So that. So that's, that's a really big deal about for. Yeah, for those people that are looking to kind of bring down their tax, right? Yeah. Yeah, legally, it's it's a very awesome vehicle because the fact of the matter is you can take up to 100% of your, you know, your tax bracket. Imagine you're somebody who owns $518,000 a year, like you're in a 37% tax bracket in the States. So and I don't know what what taxes are, I know, taxes have gone through the roof city wise in Nashville not too long ago, but I don't know, at the state level. But imagine, imagine you are able to find a, and I'll say this, because I know you like numbers, right? But you put $100,000 into an investment. And that $100,000, you're able to take bonus depreciation against the type of asset that you're putting it into, you're gonna get $37,000 back at the tech ethic at the federal level. And then if I don't know, if it's 10%, you're gonna get another 10,000. Back, because you live in Tennessee, right. And so all of a sudden, you've put $100,000 against something that gives you $47,000 Back in tax credit. And on top of that, it's generating income, like, those are the kinds of things that I like to hear about and like to see, like to be involved in, because you're getting double digit returns, and you're getting a 50% tax credit. Like,

‍

1:16:21

that's, yeah, Tennessee has no state income tax. So that's another reason why people move here. Okay,

‍

Billy Keels  1:16:28

so you're gonna so then in that case, so in my example, it would be that wouldn't be as advantageous to you, right, it would be still good. Yeah. But if you're living now, you're not paying state tax anyway. So that's pretty awesome. But if you were living in New York, or California, where you're like, 12, and 13% tax, and all of a sudden you put 100,000 in and you get 50,000. Back in tax credit. Yeah. Plus, you're getting return on the capital. Right? That's pretty cool. Yeah,

‍

1:16:53

yeah. That's, uh, yeah, that that's, I mean, I, I'm listening to shows. And now because of Yona, I'm connected with a lot of investors up in New Jersey. And it's just like, it's a mass exodus, and I'm

‍

Billy Keels  1:17:05

in New Jersey, I'm in New Jersey as well in the state, like, the taxes are just crazy. And my properties that I have there, they're constantly like, this test and that test, and they want to see this and there's this tax and that tax, and it's just like, it's kind of crazy. It's kind of crazy. They they produce really great cash flow. And at the same time, there's a lot of additional expense that you have as a result of having those properties. So

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1:17:31

are they apartments or what do you have in New Jersey?

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Billy Keels  1:17:34

I have small multifamily here. So like quad plexes and duplexes?

‍

1:17:38

Yeah, yeah. That's where your family is? Not.

‍

Billy Keels  1:17:41

Wow. Well, now I have family in New Jersey, but more originally from Ohio, originally from Ohio, but like brother and sister and dad lived there. My mom was in North Carolina.

‍

1:17:50

Okay, good. Good. Yes. Well, thank you so much. This was fun. Yeah,

‍

Billy Keels  1:17:56

great to see you, too. Like I said, Sorry, for stealing time, we're gonna, we're gonna find out now if there's a mountain about a $10 million piece of business. So we will Yeah, see, but I'll tell you what I did. Yeah, I'm not as I don't. It's really just kind of weird to say, but I'm not really emotionally invested in it.

‍

1:18:15

Cuz you're the guy on the other side of the table? Well,

‍

Billy Keels  1:18:17

no, it's because I'm kind of, well, it's because I'm kind of like you do as much as you can. And there are certain times where it's so political, that you've done everything that you can do, and it doesn't like it's not because the business case doesn't work out. It's because we did something or said something picked the wrong person off. And it's just never going to happen. And so I feel like we're we're kind of chasing behind this thing that in my gut is our I already know that. It's not going to happen. We brought it back to life. After they told us No. And so they told us no, we brought it back to life, because they got all excited about the things that we were saying. And then they went silent for seven or eight days, you and I both know that that means they're probably talking to the competitor saying all the cool things that we said and they've renegotiated that thing with us. And they haven't they've gone radio silent for the last nine days. And now they want to have a call with us in a couple minutes. And so I can more or less say what the call is gonna be about, but all of my execs have to pay this and that and yeah,

‍

1:19:20

are you is sap that you're with? Yeah, SAP. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Get some good friends in there too. Now that you would know them because it's so damn huge. It's

‍

Billy Keels  1:19:31

let me know. That was cool. It was so funny. He said shout out to Eric because I talked to him earlier today, which is funny. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's doing well. He's doing well. He's doing well. He's staying safe and staying warm and

‍

1:19:44

staying home. I

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Billy Keels  1:19:46

hope. Yeah, he's staying home. Yeah, he's

‍

1:19:47

good. So cool. All right. Thanks.

‍

Billy Keels  1:19:51

Thanks. All right. Take care. Bye bye.

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